tv Forbes on FOX FOX Business June 16, 2013 2:00am-2:31am EDT
good picks. i have no ea. i mean, hopeful thewill be good piks. in the meantime, weontie. 30 minutes in. hope springs eternal. forget about the nsa. it's the irs that should ha you really worried. the tax man accused of seizing tens of milons ofrivate medical records. now lawmakers are launching an ininvestigation. and this comes amid another report that the irs just canceled a controversial order for spying equipment. like secret cameras and office plans, coffee trays, even clock radios. well, no wonder more than three out four americans now say the irs sould not enforce the health care law. so do the overwhelming major of you have it right? hi, everybody, i'm david asman. welcome. let's go in focus with steve forbes, elizabe mcdonald, rich carl, rick unger and morgan
brennan. good to see you all. ste, first to you. should we really trust these guys with our health records? >> of course not, david. their new name is now the internal revenge service. they've fundamentally own the trf the american people. and if a 29-year-old can blow the lid off of our most secret intelgence secrets, why in the world would we trust the irs? i don't know why there's a debate on this, david. >> morgan, most americans, 76% don't trust the irs to enforce obamacare. e they right or wrwrong? >> i understandwhy they don't ust the irs. i have my issues with the irs. but looking athat obamacare essentially boilsownto, which is a massive tax package according to the supreme court last year who else will enforce it? we're talking 47 tax code-related provisions and 17 tax increases. this falls to the irs. ihink the bigger issue isn't whether we should trust the irs. i think the bigger issue is the fact that we have murky, poorly
itten legislation. i think if there's any kind of scandal that comes up around this, it's going to be because of the lemg slagislatiolegislatr >> i don't even like obamacare, but should the irs be the one to enforce it? >> clearly not. they've lost the confidence of the american people, as steve points out. look, electronic medical records industry in the united states is $20 billion insize. there's a company called epic systems whose ceo, judy ulkner, they're in a position to get after that business. she's the only known representativen obama's mmission to look into medical records under obamacare. so i think this thing has many, many layers yet to come. it reeks. >>ould you trust the irs to go through your medical records? >> i'd feel odd being in the positn of fending the irs, but i'm going to and i hope they're watching. >> you just don't want toe audited, rick. face it.
>> yeah, believe me. >> although you'd have to wait for a republican to get that done. >> on the medical records thing, let's not be too quick to judgment. this is a very bizarre lawsuit that was brought inin a southern california court. the plaintiff wouldn't even list his name. when his attorney was ask to commentn it, he said, well, i really don't know mh about it yet. i need a few months. >> hold on a second, rick. do you blame a -- in this environment when the irs has been snooping everywhere, do you blame somebody for n wanting to come public with his name? >> well, sure because they're going to have to. you can't file a lawsuit and not have the fendant know who you ar so of course, it's crazy. 's odd. and by the way, the way it was scribed in the reporting service was, quote, vague. it's odd. >> it's not vague and we'll be specific about it later, but go ahead. >> on thepy equipment, just keein mind the s does have a criminal division that deals with pretty gnarlyharaers, medicare fraud, dug dealers. some ofthese guys carry guns.
let's, again, not jump -- let's see why they were ordering. and then finally, you guys would be going nuts if they cated a new agency. y'd be complaining what? another agency of government because of obamacare? >> no, now because they have so overreached. i must say,rick, i'm very touchedy your faith in the irs. i kn that you ha a lostanding love for it. but let me be specific aboutut this complnt because there are specifics here. i'm going to quote from it. no search warrant authorized seizure of these records by irs agents, no subpoena authorized none of the 10 million aricans were under any known criminal investigation, and theiredical cords had noelevance whatsoever to the irs search but the complaint sgests that the irs came in and took them anyway. >> we don't kow the details of who filed this. i guess anderson. there's a lot of question marks over this lawsuit. i like rick's stateme.
he's acting like mayberry rfd is worki at the irs. they have a long list, and the irs makes no many mistakes in enforcing it. we don't know yet if they're going to be part of your tarks return. that's the real problem. theirs gets to dictate whether you have equate, affordabl coverage, the costof your pl, the cost of your businesses or small businesses getting insurance frome company and in order to force a mandate which gets slappedgainst your household. not just your paycheck, but your entire household income. they've got to find all of the income in your house. >> john, let us not forget. the irs was targeting individuals for their political beliefs. that was unconstutional. meanwhile, they're hiring 16,000 more irs agents to check in on granny to make sure they'she's g
rmetamucil, is that right? >> the entity that blunted the ground game in a couple years and more recently is now charged with enforcing this arguably unconstitutional law on the american people. let's add that t irs emplees themselves are exempt fro obamacar thiss a scandal, d i'm glad we're coveri it. >> of course. they were also exempt from their accounting from their own records as we saw from their conventions in which they spent millions. steve, the fact is that now -- i think rick unga is right. if you agree with obamacare, you should let the irs. a lot of americans don't agree with obamacare. now it's 5 #5%. is this more proof it's becoming more unpopular? >> it is becoming more unpopular because what it ultimately means, as anything government thing means, you'oing to pay more for less. yore going to be denied treatment. renovations are going to be halted or slowed down.
this is unworkable, especially in the spreadsheet tech era we're in. the idea that we must all be quet serfs is preposterous. >> the real problem is how we govern ourselves. i don't like all the taxes in it. >> the fact i is that the devils in the details, and theore the public finds out about the details like irs involvement, the lesthey like it. >> of course. and i think that's the int. the irs is but a symptom in a larger cau here which is the legislation itself it is what e government has passed as obamacare. >> rich, that's the problem is that government is just getting -- the mor government does, the more we realize how screwed up it is. >> yeah, and i really don't like the discretionary powers it has, particulay the irs. i mean,ou can very well imagine the irs taking a clos look at companieshose ceos, you know, are conservatives d donate more money to republicans
than decrats. chick-fil-a is not going to be scrutinized more than some fas food restaunt that donates to obama. >> this is the constitution. you're not supposed to target folks for their political beliefs. thank you, gang. it's not just uncle sam. private companies making it too dficultor government encies to snoop on you. that's coming up at the bottom of the ur. first,e's been called a traitor. the whistleblower just taught us college is a waste of money. ♪ we don't need no education w
shift. i'm kelly wright. see you at 1:00 eastern time. now back to "foes on business." well, you know him as thehe guy who leaked the super classified nsa surveillance program. did you so know that ed snowden is a high school dropout who was reportedly making, by the wa $122,000 a year. this ultra-high-security job and you say this is more evidence that college just isn't worth the expense. $122,000? i started out at $19,000 a year with a college degree way back at th crack of down. listen, don't get an accounti degree and get a good technical and engineering degree and buy a use instead. listen, henry ford, john d. rockefeller didn't go to colleg they did pretty well by thselves. >> rick, on the other hand, it
is true that the median salary of high school graduates is a lot lower than the mian salary of college graduates. >> tt's right. that's right. and'm gad you pointed that out, david. listen, if society ever gets around to changing how we value people, fabulous. but in themeantime, wenow that if you hve a college degree, you will make 85% more overour lifetime than if you don't. and that's up from 74% more just in 1999. for whaver reason, it matters. yes,e are under some strain right now with college graduate they're havin a hard time finding jobs. but you take all college graduates, they actually came out ahead after the recession began. this will work itself out. as i say, if we start valuing people differently, great. in the meantime, you want to make more, you need the degree. >> sabrina, on the other hand, this guy, snowden, he dropped out of high school. and he then earned a ged. but he never got a college degree. so here's a guy who's making six figures without a college degree.
>> well, that's right. because we know that the high price tag doesn't necessarily transte into high wall value. we do know that 53% of recent college graduates are eher underemployed or unemployed. so things are looking a ttle bleak for some of these college graduates. as e. mack suggested, if you dig a little deeper, those college graduates are accounting degrees, computer science deg e degrees, they are doing better an those of us like myself. in the end, we need skills, not just the ability to write a good say. >> johohn, the fact ishat most college students don't graduate with a degree with computer engineering. many of them graduate with degrees wh kind of neigible value. >> they do, but college education never offered anythng of real-world economic value, but it offers something differen we get away, we grow up, we make friends and contacts. andn a good economy, it helps us get a job. the's a reason that tuition continues to ris parents and kidsee there's a real value to having a degree by
your name. i think we've got to recognize it's not the education. we get something entirely different of vlue from going to college. >> mike, there's another reason why collegeuition is going up, and that's the government, right? >> well, that's ght. first of all, it sound like john and i shared the same type of college experience. but yes, you'rebsolutely rig. the reason why fewer graduates are earning a return onheir investment or their parents' investment is because government subsidies have raised the tuition of college. and at the same time, david, this is the worst economic recovery we've had snce the depression. so it's haer to earn that return. >> but steve forbes, even if a down economy, and we a growin at anemic rates, the mart still provides some answers, doesn't it? >> it does, david. and what we have here says more about our dysfunctional government than it does about lleges, if this guy can make that kindof m and have that kind of access. in terms olleges, what yo're goingto see more and re is a ybrid, online and a few weeks on campus. and you see it these busine executive programs, harvard
business school and others. y do two to four weeks on campus, 12 16 weks on your own on a computer. that's the view of thefuture. you get the knowledge at a fraction of the cost. >> the alternatives may be provided by the marketplace, right? thas exactly right. i tend to agree with steve. and listen, a studies that y that you get more money with a college degree are skewed by the degrees that actually ke the money. when you look at the college degreeat are liberal arts, you'reot making the amount of money that other people are making in the marketplace. you know what? i'ltell u, michael is absolutely right. the way the college system is built up, it islamming the middle-class family and american family so har so those college gduates are not tting the jobs as they come out into the work fce. >> rick ungar, there's no denyg the middle class is hit hardt by these school costs. >> th are. a couple quick things. to make a blanket statement by saying anybody th a liberal arts degree is going to do wll
is not true. >> i'm not going to support the the data. it's true. >> goahed, rick. >> yeah, i have a liberal arts degree. >> so do i. >> it didn't turn out so badly, sthat's not true. >> listen, i have a liberal arts degree. i started out with just $19,000 a year. >> you're n doing so badly. >> finish your point, rick. >> liz,et me finish. number two, we have tfinish something. steve isn't arguing against a colle education. he's arguing about how it's delivered. and i agr with him. it's still a lleglevel edution whether is coming over the internet or not. that's fine. >> really qick last point from steve. steve, isn't there a value just of finishing four-year -- just the fact that you get a degree, sometimes that gives the people the confidence to go out in the work world, isn't it? >> wha it tells the employer is you had the discipline to get somhing done. in the future i it's going to be more of a hybrid than a
good gn for theeconomy. how so? this is the flip side. >> ah, i think this is very good for the economy. i think this is reflectinthe fact that more employed americans are feeling confidnt about job options and we're starting to see that bility take shape. i think this is alsoeing seen in our current unemployment rate. it's ticked up to 7.6% last month. and that's because more mericans are feeling confiden to go back into the jobs market after record numbers dropped out. i also think it's good because we're seeing unemployed, the long-term unemployed number. people unemployed x mons or longer, that number's dropped by about a million as well. >> steve, peopl aren't feeling good about the economy. only 18% think it's doing well. % think is ir or orer. >> that's right. and pick your nuer, david. the fact of the matter is, this is a sloppy labor market, sloppy ecomic recovery. it's like a baseball player hitting .250. some games he'llook like he's babe uth. others like he couldn't get beyond t-ll and little leae.
a very sluggish economy. >> rick, you haveo use a baseball analogy. good. go ahead. >> i'mnot going to use a baseball anogy. i simply wasn't prepared. i will, however, say that i think moan hasas this one dead on right. the only thing that i would add to it is this. we're reaching the real hit on the baby boomers. a lot ofthese people who are quitting are actually retiring. so you have to factor that in. and that will continue now. in addition, it's always a good thing if people feel secure enough, that they can leave thr job, ty must think there's another job out there for them. >> there's another statistic. labor participation. people actually participate in th work force is very low. >> that paints an accurate picture of how srong this economy is. it's only 63.4%. that's typically number you see during a recession. what you want to see when people leave thir existig job, daid, is get another job that pays more. that's a sign of a healthy recovery. not what we're seeing now. >> sabrina, is this good or bad news, the ft that people are
quitting? >> i think i fall someerin the middle. i'd like to know where they are. are they in austinr d.c. where we're seeing growth or are they in places like etroit? they are, i'm not as hopeful. or i should say more hopeful. but i guess would say i'd also want to know what their college degree is, right? if ty're coming out with a degree in accounting, then maybe they have more opportunities. >> she brings up a great point, rich. which is the fact that it depends where you are. i think growth in texas is good because it's primarilyrivate sector. i think growth in wasngton, d.c., is not good because it's primarily public sector. >> sabrina does bring up a very good point. and that's in a country as large as the unid states, you always have to be a little wary of averages. but don't uerestimate in these statistics the effect of how easy it is to get on stability today you find a symthetic doctor and one that will put you on disability for blood pressure at is t high. so people don't have quite the incentive to stay in the job marketplace that they did inhe
ast. >> morgan, that's a great point. the fact there's a lot of people are just quitting becaus there are these government alternatives to quitting. >> i'm not sure i agree with that because if you look at the most rect numbers for people filing for unemployment, those numbers are down at least this wee i actually think at we're seeing people quit because they're looking to get other jobs. >> ste, last word on this? >> disability's not unemployment, though. >> okay. there's a lot of discouragement out there, and people are dog things they wouldn't normally do if you had a vibnt economy. back to the basebal. and steve just can't avoid the baseball. and why suld he, c coming up on father's day. coming up, sorry, dad. but a new report shows we spend less on you than on mom on those special days. time f to even the@í0x;ñt
>> we are back with a ther's day stock that wil make y your dad's favorite. ford. >> ford, this is the u.s. automaker that didn't get bailed out. it pays nift dividend and poised to benefit from th housing rebounds because of its pickup trucks division. >> you likeford? >> i like ford. cash flow slowing downdespite the recovering economy. i do like the dividend. >> what about laboratory corp of america holdings? i'i've never heard of this. >> i know, this is one of the few independent labs that do all of the hospital testing and all the testing you'll need if you need medical services. great earnings growth, too. >> gan, you like it?
>> i d i thin this is a really solid stock. >> everybody likes that one. that's . have a wonderful father's day, folks. keep it here. continues with another great father, eric foley. "chin'n" is next. first, the government, now are private firms selling you out? as thnsa scandalrupts, one phone company accused of rolling out the red carpet for uncle sam to snoop on you. democrats accusing repubublins of blowg t irs scandal out of proportion. now there's evidenceuggesting neither party is being tough engh. "cashin' in," asking the tough qutions right now. hi, everyone, welcome to "cashin' in." our crew this week, wayne rogers, jonathan, tracy, also m. welcome, everybody. so youeard about the verizon being forced to hand over private phone records to uncle sam.